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Old 10-29-2019, 09:29 AM   #61
Juan
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If the game comes out and it is woke as fuck then i would happily skip naughty dogs future titles. All i'm saying is that we are not at that point yet.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:31 AM   #62
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If it was a fag as a protagonist, i certainly wouldn't buy the game ha ha.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:54 AM   #63
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Yeah you can have your agenda but own it. Don't deny it or hide it. Just freakin own it. Don't try and fool me into liking your product and then sneak your agenda in after. Don't tell me there's no agenda when there really is. Don't have an agenda and get mad at me when I don't participate. That's the stuff that actually does make me kind of mad. Make whatever game, show, movie, book, you want. Just own your ideas and don't get mad if I don't partake. You don't have a right to my approval, my cash, or my time. And I think the vast majority of people get that. But they somehow forget it when they tell you about their new lesbian movie and you say "Nah, not for me."
Exactly this, if they'd just own up to this shit up front people wouldn't bitch as much. It's when you try and force feed political agendas down people's throats that they start to take notice. And really video games aren't the place for this shit to begin with.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:18 AM   #64
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Now look. I'm proud of much that we have achieved in our civilization. I am glad that our society offers a relatively decent life to minorities compared to much of the rest of the world.
I like when people have a minimum of respect for another human being simply for being a human being. So when I discuss these issues it's not about trying to be mean to others.
But however we might try there is a limit to what you can expect from this life. And there are many other problems to life. And at some point we gotta be realistic about things.

I know that when someone disregards a product for no other reason than being too queer, it sounds discriminatory and makes people try to defend it. Alright.

But I am telling you straight away, there are actually many other things I discard pre-emptively for many reasons. I don't bother watching reality TV shows, I don't watch women sports, don't play realistic military shooters and a bunch of other genres in movies and games, there is also a bunch of foods I don't bother try eating, or places I don't bother going, and many other kinds of things I judge beforehand and just skip. Plain and simple. Just a bad Trailer of a movie might be enough to lose interest. And as much as it gives you distress to consider, queer stuff is one of these things. It's just not for me whatsoever. There is just a whole bunch of things I don't bother being much open minded about for various reasons. It just makes the chances I bother watching/playing it very unlikely automatically, because I know that any element of romance/love/sex is just gonna be super awkward, and breaks an important part of storytelling. it just is what it is. I don't bother watching bad straight relationships either, and I also don't bother any queer relationships whatsoever, because any of it is by default worse than even a bad straight one, according to my personal interests. And there usually is a lot of other stuff that come along with these things I just don't like. It's just in the nature of things and who I am.

Now, LoU2 might be somehow cool in some way. And maybe because it has good gameplay of some sort, or great graphics, it might be good for you. But as ChiefSmash mentioned, there is just so much stuff out there, so much backlog in movies and games, and this aspect alone unfortunately is already reason enough to skip it in favour of other things. That's how it works for me personally. It might still be possible that this game might find some success because of how polished a production it is altogether, and there are examples of other stuff I don't bother with that have great success anyway. And I wish you good luck with being more open to this experience. And that's that. Personally I wish our entertainment would concentrate more on the core issues of our species again. I feel that's more important. Critical even. But that's me.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:35 AM   #65
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Now look. I'm proud of much that we have achieved in our civilization. I am glad that our society offers a relatively decent life to minorities compared to much of the rest of the world.
I like when people have a minimum of respect for another human being simply for being a human being. So when I discuss these issues it's not about trying to be mean to others.
But however we might try there is a limit to what you can expect from this life. And there are many other problems to life. And at some point we gotta be realistic about things.

I know that when someone disregards a product for no other reason than being too queer, it sounds discriminatory and makes people try to defend it. Alright.

But I am telling you straight away, there are actually many other things I discard pre-emptively for many reasons. I don't bother watching reality TV shows, I don't watch women sports, don't play realistic military shooters and a bunch of other genres in movies and games, there is also a bunch of foods I don't bother try eating, or places I don't bother going, and many other kinds of things I judge beforehand and just skip. Plain and simple. Just a bad Trailer of a movie might be enough to lose interest. And as much as it gives you distress to consider, queer stuff is one of these things. It's just not for me whatsoever. There is just a whole bunch of things I don't bother being much open minded about for various reasons. It just makes the chances I bother watching/playing it very unlikely automatically, because I know that any element of romance/love/sex is just gonna be super awkward, and breaks an important part of storytelling. it just is what it is. I don't bother watching bad straight relationships either, and I also don't bother any queer relationships whatsoever, because any of it is by default worse than even a bad straight one, according to my personal interests. And there usually is a lot of other stuff that come along with these things I just don't like. It's just in the nature of things and who I am.

Now, LoU2 might be somehow cool in some way. And maybe because it has good gameplay of some sort, or great graphics, it might be good for you. But as ChiefSmash mentioned, there is just so much stuff out there, so much backlog in movies and games, and this aspect alone unfortunately is already reason enough to skip it in favour of other things. That's how it works for me personally. It might still be possible that this game might find some success because of how polished a production it is altogether, and there are examples of other stuff I don't bother with that have great success anyway. And I wish you good luck with being more open to this experience. And that's that. Personally I wish our entertainment would concentrate more on the core issues of our species again. I feel that's more important. Critical even. But that's me.
All you actually KNOW about this game and it's perceived agenda is that at some point in the story, two young girls kiss. Everything else being discussed here is made up. Is that kiss really enough to make you completely swear off a sequel to one of the best games ever made?

If it turns out to be a woke as fuck SJW riddled story then fine, i'm with you but right now there is nothing to suggest that is the case.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:40 AM   #66
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All you actually KNOW about this game and it's perceived agenda is that at some point in the story, two young girls kiss. Everything else being discussed here is made up. Is that kiss really enough to make you completely swear off a sequel to one of the best games ever made?

If it turns out to be a woke as fuck SJW riddled story then fine, i'm with you but right now there is nothing to suggest that is the case.
Can you blame him for feeling this way when the big E3 trailer made such a deal out of that kiss?
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:58 AM   #67
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All you actually KNOW about this game and it's perceived agenda is that at some point in the story, two young girls kiss. Everything else being discussed here is made up. Is that kiss really enough to make you completely swear off a sequel to one of the best games ever made?

If it turns out to be a woke as fuck SJW riddled story then fine, i'm with you but right now there is nothing to suggest that is the case.
Haha, you see, you got it all backwards. It's not just about what I suspect it will have. It is also what I know for sure it won't have: love interests between straight people. classic virtues of traditional role models.

I know that in this day and age, love between men and women, in their traditional roles. is considered the worst evil on earth, or maybe too cliche and kitsch, and just so embarrassing and boring and old fashioned. But when I know from the outset it cannot play on the complexities of decent straight relations, I'm just not interest. If this queer stuff were just a side role, while the mainstory focused on normal relationships, I might still give it a go. But the center point of the game? sorry no. A significant part of what made the last games good was the relationships I liked. Can't see them happening again, so not interested.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:58 AM   #68
Juan
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Can you blame him for feeling this way when the big E3 trailer made such a deal out of that kiss?
The only big deal i've seen being made out of it is right here and it is 100% manufactured outrage.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:10 AM   #69
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The only big deal i've seen being made out of it is right here and it is 100% manufactured outrage.
Really? This is the only place where you saw that they made a big deal out of that trailer's kiss?
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Old 10-29-2019, 12:24 PM   #70
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Really? This is the only place where you saw that they made a big deal out of that trailer's kiss?
Of course it is, admitting otherwise would be admitting the agenda. that isn't how SJW's do it, especially ones that claim not to be while taking the liberal point of view anytime one of these threads comes up.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:12 PM   #71
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Of course it is, admitting otherwise would be admitting the agenda. that isn't how SJW's do it, especially ones that claim not to be while taking the liberal point of view anytime one of these threads comes up.
Go deny the Holocaust some more you vile piece of shit. Did you also forget that everyone here despises you?
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:39 PM   #72
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The only big deal i've seen being made out of it is right here and it is 100% manufactured outrage.
What do you call an autosexual Juan?

Juan on Juan action!!!!
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:42 PM   #73
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What do you call an autosexual Juan?

Juan on Juan action!!!!
Likely the only play he can get really.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:17 PM   #74
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I honestly don't think most people are bothered by the protagonist of a game being gay. It's whether it fits into a compelling story or takes away from it that matters.
This. My biggest problem is they seem to be marketing the game as some LGBT tentpole revenge fantasy. That is ALL we've seen. Maybe things change when she and Joel meet and then the bigger story unfolds.

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But I don't think we should write off the game yet until it becomes clear that we either have a fantastic story and game, or something contrived and forced. And I feel that way about romantic relationships of all types in all entertainment platforms.
Yep, agree.

I also think that, irt what Rav said good stories do often include some sort of romance, and gay people deserve to see their romance in games too.

On the other hand, if you check out the difference between how successful "Rocketman" was vs. "Bohemian Rhapsody" one of the biggest differences was one is about a gay man who happens to be a really excellent musician and they feature graphic gay sex. The second, more successful Bohemian Rhapsody, was about an incredible musician and he happened to be gay.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:40 PM   #75
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Yeah well, as we discussed, it's not so much the very existence of these things to take issue with. Is more a question who this is for, and why others should be interested in it.
There are a lot of question marks about that so far. But the actual thing that bothers me is something else that we also kinda pointed to earlier:
I find it increasingly difficult to find the type of stories that appeal to more classic tastes. It's like, if I want to find anything appealing, I have to watch movies from 30+ years ago now.
It's like every major franchise I might have still liked is turned into something that doesn't mean much to me anymore. I mean the bigger picture of relations between men and women as they are portrayed.
There is hardly material anymore, of what I consider interesting stories between men and women, with any real amount of good intentions and production value.
The biggest productions now in movies and games are about something else... something that is no longer in service of the larger society.
So I guess I might just be disappointed that, with Uncharted we still kinda got a bit of that on a high production value with a more classic male protagonist with these relationships.
And now this one is gone too. And yet again more than a hundred million dollars in development and maybe another 100 million in marketing is put into something that's actually very niche in the interest.
I just don't know what to look at anymore. I look around and there is just not much for me anymore. It feels like there is a disproportionate amount of Power Grrrl stories and a lot of minority focused stuff now.
So I guess it comes down to a question of proper resource allocation in the interest of greater society, and my personal disappointment that it seems there is less and less tailored for just ordinary folks.
That's the impression I got anyway. So I am not particularly enthusiastic and encouraging of yet another franchise taking a turn into something else. There is just not much left as far as I can see.
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Old 10-30-2019, 01:31 AM   #76
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What do you call an autosexual Juan?

Juan on Juan action!!!!
I donít understand what this means
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Old 10-30-2019, 03:11 AM   #77
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Of course it is, admitting otherwise would be admitting the agenda. that isn't how SJW's do it, especially ones that claim not to be while taking the liberal point of view anytime one of these threads comes up.
Being called a liberal / SJW by a holocaust denier such as yourself is like taking college advice for your kids from Ted Bundy.

You truly are a piece of shit and i'd bet cash money you have no friends in real life.
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Old 10-30-2019, 08:11 AM   #78
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I donít understand what this means
lol, that makes two of us.
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Old 10-30-2019, 08:33 AM   #79
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This. My biggest problem is they seem to be marketing the game as some LGBT tentpole revenge fantasy. That is ALL we've seen. Maybe things change when she and Joel meet and then the bigger story unfolds.



Yep, agree.

I also think that, irt what Rav said good stories do often include some sort of romance, and gay people deserve to see their romance in games too.

On the other hand, if you check out the difference between how successful "Rocketman" was vs. "Bohemian Rhapsody" one of the biggest differences was one is about a gay man who happens to be a really excellent musician and they feature graphic gay sex. The second, more successful Bohemian Rhapsody, was about an incredible musician and he happened to be gay.
Yah, look, im as tired as you with the whole straight white male is evil thing. I don't like that push, either. I know I certainly wasn't handed anything. I had to work my ass off my whole life for the modest career I've built. Nothing was given to me. I came from a pretty poor family as a matter of fact.

I wasn't let of the hook by police, promoted by my school, given a job for anything other than being the most qualified. I'm not racist, im not sexist. I wasn't raised that way. Nothing was given to me. In fact, when my parents pass, they'll likely just be leaving me with debt. I'm not evil, I enjoy people of all walks of life, so long as they're good-hearted and good company. And in my experience, MOST people are like that. Sure, there are some shitty people, but that applies across the board. Not just to straight white men.

But the point is, I'm not a villain, most people aren't, and absolutely nothing was given to me as a straight white male. No jobs, no money, no preference. I came from a poorer family from rural Maine who just worked hard to survive, and tried to live by the values given to me by my family, and seek and act out my own values as well.

But on the flip side, I at least don't take those things personally. I don't feel attacked or ostracized. It just gets old.

And I think you nailed it. Bohemian Rhapsody was more popular for a reason. That's a good sign.

I think if they force nonsense into the story for the sake of it. For a "secret agenda", the story will suffer, the game will suffer, and so will the sales, because it won't be the best piece of work it can be. I'm curious to see what they do with it. If its propaganda nonsense, sure, we can all skip and move on. My argument is just to say, I wont write it off yet, simply on the existence of things, and while RAV makes some okay points, I personally don't feel like I need to absolutely relate to every character in every story told to me. Sometimes it's actually more compelling when I CANT relate.

We'll see.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:34 AM   #80
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It sometimes seems like just finding anything to relate to has become rare enough, rather than a requirement.

Bohemian Rhapsody was alright, and I don't consider part of my critique since as a documentary about a skilled craftsman it compares more to the Metroid example I gave earlier.

I'll be probably digging out the remaster of the old game Outcast by the time LastOfUs arrives.
Man, Outcast was cool back in the day. Good times. Looking forward to relive that.
In the German version, the protagonist had the voice of Bruce Willis, which was totally epic.
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