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Old 03-06-2017, 08:35 AM   #21
Rommel
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If the discussion is about throwing the previous President of the United States in prison over illegally spying on an American citizen, I don't believe that proof is a silly word.
Proof is a silly word at the accusation stage. It is also a silly word in general, as most cases are built upon a number of individual pieces of evidence that conclude in proof. Finally, it's a silly word whenever I hear some idiot on TV, fictional or otherwise, when they demand for it at the very first word of suspicion.
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:03 AM   #22
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More sources (lol...anonymous sources) say that Trump dumped these tweets without knowing if they were true or not. Who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone can credibly claim to have told the truth while it all happened anyways; FINE PRINT!

Trump says they've been monitored? Probably so...the NSA is collecting everything and the previous admin spied on journalists and all sorts of folks.
Obama says the WH never directly ordered such surveillance? Probably so...others did it for him, just like with the IRS, without direct orders.
The previous NSA says he can deny the veracity of Trump's accusation? Probably so, because Trump's accusation was so mangled and vague as to be plausibly denied based upon verbiage alone.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and I know enough to know that the lot of them are a bunch of lawyer-ish liars with the truth being the last thing on their minds.
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:10 AM   #23
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Obama never had to give the order.

He gave them the power, he just needed suggest they use it.

Public will not know the truth for a long time, if ever. But that doesn't matter to either side either way. All they want is chaos, both sides . To create smoke screen's while they do they stuff in the dark
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:57 AM   #24
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Obama never had to give the order.

He gave them the power, he just needed suggest they use it.

Public will not know the truth for a long time, if ever. But that doesn't matter to either side either way. All they want is chaos, both sides . To create smoke screen's while they do they stuff in the dark
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:52 AM   #25
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Yeah, the media is not hiding what they're trying - and to a certain extent finding sucess - to do. I've noticed the whole "without evidence" seems to be a common phrase used. This, of course, wasn't used against Zero when he'd make claims without providing any evidence at the time of the claim.

They also, as in your fictional situation, jump between taking Trump in the most literal form possible and not taking him literally, whenever it suits their purposes. It's like the Sweden comment, where that became: Trump points to a terrorist attack which never happened! The problem was he never said terrorism, so they didn't take him literally, but declared he did anyways.

Lefties seem far more prone to being activists, and I guess that's why things are the way they are. They're not dumb about it either, which is why most "fact-check" sites have a clear liberal bias -- but it allows the msm to push their narrative with the false idea that it's based upon purely objective facts.

AngryForeigner posted a video regarding this in which he claims Trump was referring to this story run on Fox News:



Angry Foreigner video:
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:27 PM   #26
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I wouldn't be surprised if everyone can credibly claim to have told the truth while it all happened anyways; FINE PRINT!
Talk about prescient! They think the same thing here.

If Trump is right, this is a scandal that far exceeds Watergate. It will be the biggest scandal in our nation's history at the presidential level, IMO. Yuuuge!

And nothing will come of it. The media will run interference, progressives will deflect, Dems will deny, Obama will have plausible deniability, and nobody will go to jail.
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Old 03-06-2017, 01:00 PM   #27
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Talk about prescient! They think the same thing here.

If Trump is right, this is a scandal that far exceeds Watergate. It will be the biggest scandal in our nation's history at the presidential level, IMO. Yuuuge!

And nothing will come of it. The media will run interference, progressives will deflect, Dems will deny, Obama will have plausible deniability, and nobody will go to jail.
Ah there's the rub.... Nothing will come of it. We've already had scandals worse than Watergate several times and nothing really came of it. I can only hope that all of this insanity is just the thrashing of a dying elite.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:44 PM   #28
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Proof is a silly word at the accusation stage. It is also a silly word in general, as most cases are built upon a number of individual pieces of evidence that conclude in proof. Finally, it's a silly word whenever I hear some idiot on TV, fictional or otherwise, when they demand for it at the very first word of suspicion.
No, it's not. When the President of the United States makes a specific claim, he should have proof that such a claim is true.

A single piece of evidence could prove Trump's claim true.

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AngryForeigner posted a video regarding this in which he claims Trump was referring to this story run on Fox News:
The videos aren't working for me. I'm guessing he was referencing the attempts to get a FISA and all that. Note: I'm not calling Trump a liar here; I think what he's saying is most likely true.

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Ah there's the rub.... Nothing will come of it. We've already had scandals worse than Watergate several times and nothing really came of it. I can only hope that all of this insanity is just the thrashing of a dying elite.
I agree. This is also partially why I've taken the position that for anything to come of this. It was proven that Hillary created a server which ran afoul of several laws and nothing happened to her, with the MSM and Obama admin working overtime to protect her. If Hillary didn't go down for that, I don't see it be likely that Obama, a religious figure to many on the Left, would be destroyed by something that he'd be even further removed from.

The Left has fully embraced an ends justify the means approach.

However, I do think Trump needs to get his ducks in a row before tweeting this kind of thing out. As President, he has the authority to release information about it unilaterally.

USA Today:
Did Obama spy on Trump? It isn't out of the question. The former president's administration wiretapped journalists and spied on Congress.

Also:
SAME NY Times Reporter Said Trump Team Was Wiretapped In Jan., But Said TRUMP Lacked Evidence In March

The MSM is simply an arm of the Left. With that said, I think Trump could be far more effective in showing them to be the tools of the Left that they are.
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:30 PM   #29
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AngryForeigner posted a video regarding this in which he claims Trump was referring to this story run on Fox News:
I am awesome cause I figured out what was wrong with the links! (Krieg, don't add the "&[x]" part at the end of the youtube link).



Angry Foreigner video:
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:36 PM   #30
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Ah, that Trump claim. Yeah, Trump was right and specified what he was referencing after the fact. He never said terrorism, but it was a beneficial to not take him literally at that moment to the media.
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:42 PM   #31
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As an anarchist, having a loose-cannon in the Whitehouse does a lot to damage the credibility and legitimacy of the government in general. Trump isn't any good at playing the politician's game. This is delicious.

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Old 03-06-2017, 04:43 PM   #32
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I am awesome cause I figured out what was wrong with the links! (Krieg, don't add the "&[x]" part at the end of the youtube link).
Could helped ya out. My evav blog has had a youtube posting tutorial for literally years now :\
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:49 PM   #33
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As an anarchist, having a loose-cannon in the Whitehouse does a lot to damage the credibility and legitimacy of the government in general. Trump isn't any good at playing the politician's game. This is delicious.
You want to have some court imposing your beliefs upon people to the point of killing them. You want government -- you just want to be the one at the wheel.
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:50 PM   #34
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Trump isn't any good at playing the politician's game.
On the contrary, I think he's very good at it. He doesn't play the game the way others have in the past but he's pulled off some good victories with most of the cards stacked against him.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:13 PM   #35
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On the contrary, I think he's very good at it. He doesn't play the game the way others have in the past but he's pulled off some good victories with most of the cards stacked against him.
I think Trump is good -- but he could be so much better. Just like how some of the columnists have gone from saying Trump's people were wire tapped to claiming there is no evidence of it, he could do better at throwing it in there faces.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:17 PM   #36
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You want to have some court imposing your beliefs upon people to the point of killing them. You want government -- you just want to be the one at the wheel.
So you're saying you missed the part where people have to opt into law before it can be enforced on them? Such selective reading you have, might want to get your eyes checked.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:22 PM   #37
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On the contrary, I think he's very good at it. He doesn't play the game the way others have in the past but he's pulled off some good victories with most of the cards stacked against him.
He's a good populist, but that's only half the game. You also have to look like you are in control of everything, especially yourself. Hillary was the ultimate at projecting this, with her command of policy and Washington's back alleys of power. It's just that where that was her strength, populism was equally her failing, and the mood of the country was strongly anti-incumbent, and she was the worst possible candidate to run in such a mood, having been in the public eye for literally decades.

But it was her turn and she would not be denied, she had the power to make it happen. In short, the was the Dem's McCain moment.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:29 PM   #38
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So you're saying you missed the part where people have to opt into law before it can be enforced on them? Such selective reading you have, might want to get your eyes checked.
People aren't opting into the law that lead to you putting them on trial and performing "targeted assassination." You explicitly state that you're going to put people on trial "in absentia." Another case of Anenome versus Anenome.

Getting put on trial without your presence and being "assassinated" because of the ruling is obviously an example of opting into a law. Everyone would agree to this, right? About about we try your normal foolish stance: wouldn't you opt into being put on trial without your presence and assassinated? Totally! I mean, what reasonable person wouldn't, right? It's totally voluntarism when you're put on trial without your presence and "assassinated" due to that ruling. Or, conversely, assassinating people based on a court ruling isn't enforcing that ruling. Nope. It's, uh, not force because Anenome agrees with that force killing isn't force. Yup, in Anenome's world killing someone is not an act of force at all. Of course, forcing your values on others is tyranny... well, unless it's you doing it, right? If you say it's ethical it's objective truth! If someone else says it's objectively ethical, then that's a laughable position because Hume's law.

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He's a good populist, but that's only half the game. You also have to look like you are in control of everything, especially yourself. Hillary was the ultimate at projecting this, with her command of policy and Washington's back alleys of power. It's just that where that was her strength, populism was equally her failing, and the mood of the country was strongly anti-incumbent, and she was the worst possible candidate to run in such a mood, having been in the public eye for literally decades.

But it was her turn and she would not be denied, she had the power to make it happen. In short, the was the Dem's McCain moment.
Hillary was terrible at projecting anything -- it was the MSM carrying water for her that had a positive effect.
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:24 PM   #39
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He's a good populist, but that's only half the game. You also have to look like you are in control of everything, especially yourself.
Or you can make your opponents continually underestimate how much control you do have and turn their own plots around on them. The whole "fake news" thing is something that would normally have frustratingly stuck to republicans. And yet Trump gets it turned around on them so well that they cry when we call the them "fake news." Trump is far from perfect but he fights well.
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:37 PM   #40
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Trump has proof. All the while Comey is trying to throw Trump under the bus over this. Fire that pedo sheltering fucker.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...-wiretap-proof

Vault 7 dropping tomorrow from wikileaks.
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