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Old 03-05-2017, 08:22 AM   #1
blackzc
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Obama had Trump tower tapped.

Things are heating up again. Violence at Trump rallies. Mid tier pedogate arrest, now this. I am amazed at Trump and his eagerness to burn the whole dam thing down. Everything i want him to do, he does. Is Obama going to prison? At this point, im just going to say yes.

What we know now:
1. The Intelligence Community at the direction of President Obama-made a request to a FISA court for the NSA to spy on Donald in June 2016. The courts denied the request. (courts approve 99.7% of requests)
2. In October the Intelligence Community (NSA)-at the direction of President Obama- made a second request to the FISA court for the NSA to spy on Donald Trump. The administration narrowed the FISA request scope to investigate a server in Trump Towers specifically.
3. At around the same time (October), as the second request to FISA, (Def Sec) Ash Carter and (DNI) James Clapper tell President Obama to relieve NSA Director Mike Rogers of his duty.
4. A week after the election, Mike Rogers makes a trip to Trump Tower without telling his superior, James Clapper; which brings about new calls (November media leaks to Washington Post) for President Obama to relieve Mike Rogers of his position.
5. According to the Executive Order rule changes by President Obama, DNI James Clapper signed off on the request on December 15th.
6. General Michal Flynn spoke to Russian Ambassador on December 29th.
December 29th 2016- President Obama announces sanctions on Russia
7. VERY IMPORTANT January: President Obama expands NSA data sharing. As Michael Walsh later notes, and as the New York Times reports, the outgoing Obama administration "expanded the power of the NSA to share globally intercepted personal communications with government's 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections." The new powers and reduced protections could make it easier for intelligence on private citizens to be circulated improperly or leaked."
8. January 3rd, 2017- Loretta Lynch signs off on rule changes for phone taps.
9. January 12th, 2017- Washington Post reports on phone calls anonymous Intelligence sources.
10 January 15th, 2017- Vice President Pence appears on Face the Nation
11. January 20th, 2017- Inauguration
12. January 23rd, 2017- FBI reports nothing unlawful in content on General Michael Flynn's phone calls.
13. January 26th, 2017- Sally Yates (Acting Attorney General) informs President Trump there might be a conflict between Vice President Pence's stated TV version (was told by Flynn), and what the Intelligence Community to Yates than what Flynn expressed to Russia.
14. January 27th, 2017- White House counsel begins an investigation into the discrepancy.
15. January: Times report. The New York Times reports, on the eve of Inauguration Day, that several agencies- the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Treasury Department are monitoring several associates of the Trump campaign suspected of Russian ties.
Occam's Razor. NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers didn't want to participate in the spying operation (Clapper, Brennan, Ect.) which was the baseline for Obama's post-presidency efforts to undermine President Trump and keep the President from digging into the Obama labyrinth underlying his remaining loyalists. After the October spying operation had gone into effect, Rogers unknown loyalty was a risk to the Obama objective. Ten days after the election Rogers travels to President-Elect Trump without notifying those who were involved in the plan.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:42 AM   #2
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I wouldn't bank on Obama going to prison.
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Old 03-05-2017, 10:09 AM   #3
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They couldn't get Obama over illegally running guns into Mexico and getting numerous people, including a US citizen, killed...
They couldn't get Obama over extrajudicial killings of American citizens by drone...
They couldn't get Obama over using the IRS as a weapon to silence political opponents...
They couldn't get Obama over rewriting federal immigration law...
Etc., etc., etc...

Nothing will happen. The media, the deep (intelligence, lo@theirony, and bureaucratic) state, and others will circle the wagons to run interference and NOTHING will come of it. I doubt we'll even find out whether it's true or not. They're all liars.
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:58 PM   #4
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They couldn't get Obama over illegally running guns into Mexico and getting numerous people, including a US citizen, killed...
They couldn't get Obama over extrajudicial killings of American citizens by drone...
They couldn't get Obama over using the IRS as a weapon to silence political opponents...
They couldn't get Obama over rewriting federal immigration law...
Etc., etc., etc...

Nothing will happen. The media, the deep (intelligence, lo@theirony, and bureaucratic) state, and others will circle the wagons to run interference and NOTHING will come of it. I doubt we'll even find out whether it's true or not. They're all liars.
Plus since 90% of the appointees in the higher level positions in the government are still on Obama's side the chances of anything are even slimmer. He isn't even president anymore to make him resign, as if that would have happened anyway.

Besides, we have Sessions talking to Russia as a member of the Armed Services Committee (like half a dozen Democrats who "Never met with the Russian Ambassador EVAR. Except that one time. And that other time."). We have to INVESTIGATE THAT.

Not this Watergate like thing over here. Pay attention to Sessions and Russia! This hand, not that hand THIS hand! Shiny!

Trump needs one of those industrial strength drain thingies like they use to drain swimming pools in 10 minutes. Right now he's using the type you get from Walmart that drains the same sized pool in like 5 years.

The swamp ain't gunna drain itself.
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:21 PM   #5
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Obama won't get prosecuted for the same reason Hillary will not, because the people in power do not want to set a precedent of the incoming administration prosecuting the people going out, as that would lead quickly into political devolution. These people are getting away with it so the people in power do not face the same retaliatory prosecution when THEY leave office.

Which is to say, the whole thing is the elites protecting the elites.
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:52 PM   #6
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Remember guys, Trump doesn't have a chance to win the election.
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Old 03-05-2017, 02:05 PM   #7
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He may have won but the dems are taking down his nominees like the crackshot at a shooting gallery and undermining everything he does thanks to 90% of DC being loyal to the Big O. This is the first time in history where the entire structure of the capital has been so hostile to the incoming administration that every gear, rivet, and spring is actively working against it.
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Old 03-05-2017, 02:24 PM   #8
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Remember guys, Trump doesn't have a chance to win the election.
While this dwarfs Watergate, there would need to be undeniable evidence of Obama directing his people to illegally spy on Trump. If anyone is going to jail, it's not likely to be Obama.
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Old 03-05-2017, 05:22 PM   #9
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While this dwarfs Watergate, there would need to be undeniable evidence of Obama directing his people to illegally spy on Trump. If anyone is going to jail, it's not likely to be Obama.
All i know is we are in a new timeline. Cant you feel it? Like a whole new reality just came into being? Isn't it surreal lately?

I'm just thinking Trump would not bring this up if he doesn't have undeniable proof. Another thing, bringing this up is more media gaslighting while he MAGA's the shit out of illegals and kid touchers. Now they are saying Gowdy and others were wiretapped as well by bongo.

There is going to be an investigation. Trump very well may have all the evidence he needs. Since being wrong is a huge ding on his credibility.

Will the media acknowledge proof without major spin? Nope. Again, does it matter now that the MSM is a meme? Nope. I get it, the old order feels normal and familiar. I know, its a habit to base reality around the context of a MSM created narrative. Let this go. Its ok.

Im having to remind my uncle over and over that those days are over. OMG, fox said trump is crazy and paranoid, how will he ever recover?

Trump is the hero of our time, a king of kings. He will bring us to the glory land.
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Old 03-05-2017, 05:25 PM   #10
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thanks to 90% of DC being loyal to the Big O
Ridiculous overestimate and not true.
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Old 03-05-2017, 05:45 PM   #11
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It may be a hyperbolic overestimate, but the fact is that the wealthiest and most powerful portion of the country is the area in and around DC, and those folks have a vested interest in the gravy train running on time to load up their accounts with the money pried out of the rest of the country. For damn sure that number would have to be at least 70%, probably even higher. It's already an area infested with liberals; you think Trump has anything close to majority support there? LOL. Likely not more than at most a third, probably less...MUCH less among the wealthy elites (in and out of government) in the area there.
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Old 03-05-2017, 06:47 PM   #12
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All i know is we are in a new timeline. Cant you feel it? Like a whole new reality just came into being? Isn't it surreal lately?

I'm just thinking Trump would not bring this up if he doesn't have undeniable proof. Another thing, bringing this up is more media gaslighting while he MAGA's the shit out of illegals and kid touchers.
I think we're entering a time where a larger portion of the right will start to be more proactive in fighting back. However, I do think Trump would bring this up without undeniable proof that it was specifically Obama whom had his tower tapped. He entered office against the wishes of many on both the Right and Left.

How do you expect that Trump is going to have undeniable proof that Obama himself ordered that he be the subject of illegal surveillance? He could have a lot which pointed to that, but that's different than undeniable proof. You may have noticed that the government remains filled with Obama loyalists and those simply attempting to thwart Trump at every move due to it being Trump. At the higher levels, those which are filled by Obama appointees, do you think they're saving some sort of undeniable proof that Obama called and said "illegally spy on the Donald"?

I also strongly disagree that this is simply a maneuver by Trump to distract the media.

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Now they are saying Gowdy and others were wiretapped as well by bongo.
They probably were considering other leaks.

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There is going to be an investigation. Trump very well may have all the evidence he needs. Since being wrong is a huge ding on his credibility.

Will the media acknowledge proof without major spin? Nope. Again, does it matter now that the MSM is a meme? Nope. I get it, the old order feels normal and familiar. I know, its a habit to base reality around the context of a MSM created narrative. Let this go. Its ok.

Im having to remind my uncle over and over that those days are over. OMG, fox said trump is crazy and paranoid, how will he ever recover?
The MSM has been a meme for a long time, and it does matter to a significant number of people. Does that matter to actual facts and reality? No, however that doesn't always govern the choices of people, obviously. For the media to not be able to dismiss this or spin it in a major way, Trump would need video proof of Obama saying "illegally spy on Trump, who cares that the courts said no! We must destroy him and illegally intervene in the election to get Hillary elected."

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Trump is the hero of our time, a king of kings. He will bring us to the glory land.
I think Trump's a better choice of the alternative, but I don't think he's what you think he is. Really, you seem like those who blindly worshipped Obama.

I don't know the percentage, but DC IS overwhelmingly liberal. Even of those that are on the Right, many are vehemently anti-Trumpers.
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Old 03-05-2017, 06:51 PM   #13
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It may be a hyperbolic overestimate, but the fact is that the wealthiest and most powerful portion of the country is the area in and around DC, and those folks have a vested interest in the gravy train running on time to load up their accounts with the money pried out of the rest of the country. For damn sure that number would have to be at least 70%, probably even higher. It's already an area infested with liberals; you think Trump has anything close to majority support there? LOL. Likely not more than at most a third, probably less...MUCH less among the wealthy elites (in and out of government) in the area there.
Oh, wealthy elites. Yea, money really matterd last November didn't it?

I doubt that's the case but if it is and they do manage to oust Trump. I have a feeling he's going to take them down with him. Not to mention the very irritated Trump voters that may just say fuck it, let do this.

And they know that. They cannot win. Its over. All they can do is limit their damage on the way out and regroup later.

You are still living in the past. Enough of the Eeyore bullshit.
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:07 PM   #14
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Oh, wealthy elites. Yea, money really matterd last November didn't it?
Don't be blind. I'm as happy as anyone Trump won over the Shillary and her party's America-hating progtardian anti-white demagoguery, but I'm under no illusions because the reality that his win was based upon the dying embers of rural whites in three states by some 80,000-odd votes. The majority of voters wanted to continue to destroy traditional America, religious freedom, and individual autonomy through a continually expanding state. Yes, that majority is clustered in a few states (CA, NY, MA, a few others), but they're still a threat to the freedoms of the rest of the country.

He has far less than a majority of those who actually vote on his side. Even Republicans (RINOs, GOPe, etc.) have opposed him significantly already.

I don't really care what happens next, because I've already gotten the best gifts for the next four years you could possibly get: No Shillary, no progtard judicial appointments, the fear of the law in illegals resulting in declining numbers of them, a positive direction on gun rights, a positive direction on vote security (have a damned ID at the polling place, thank you), etc., etc..

So I'm quite content to let the morons in DC and their media moron sycophants and antagonists monkey-shit their place up. Maybe in the process we'll get lucky and have a real political realignment that will move more people toward traditional, conservative ideology, or maybe not. In the meantime, I'm quite content. Good luck to him. He'll need a miracle. Do you believe in miracles?
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Old 03-06-2017, 01:39 AM   #15
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Is there any evidence of wire tapping of Trump Tower or any of Trump's assets? Note I do not use the word "Proof," as in "Where is the proof?" Proof is a silly word used by morons who think every claim or crime can be demonstrably and perfectly shown. In reading the articles on the subject, however, people are too busy quoting what others have to say to go through the story in any detail.

Edit: Nevermind, found it buried in a story on BBC.

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Press reports stretching back to November suggested the FBI obtained a warrant under the Foreign Surveillance Act (FISA) to conduct the surveillance towards the end of the election campaign.

At the time the agency was looking into possible communications between a Trump Organization computer server and Alfa Bank, a Russian bank.

The FBI did investigate but concluded the communications were innocuous.
The article goes on to state that the FBI has denied the warrant existed at all. James Comey has also stated that the Justice Department reject the claim, not on the grounds that wire tapping took place but instead "because the allegation falsely insinuated that the FBI broke the law." There does appear to be a FISA warrant issued that may have included a server belonging to Donald Trump located in Philadelphia.


It's a very interesting story. I mean, I don't think there is much to it or anything that will become of it, but it is worth a read or two.
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Old 03-06-2017, 02:30 AM   #16
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Is there any evidence of wire tapping of Trump Tower or any of Trump's assets? Note I do not use the word "Proof," as in "Where is the proof?" Proof is a silly word used by morons who think every claim or crime can be demonstrably and perfectly shown.
If the discussion is about throwing the previous President of the United States in prison over illegally spying on an American citizen, I don't believe that proof is a silly word. This, I believe, is especially true considering the crimes openly committed by Hillary as the head of an intelligence agency (yes, the State Dept. qualifies as an intelligence agency) admitted to setting up a private server in which she stored, sent and received classified material and knowingly allowed people without clearances access to such a server.

Her crimes were demonstrably and perfectly shown. They had the server, which was the so-called smoking gun. Did any of that matter? No, it didn't. The media worked overtime to help Hillary with this, and the Obama admin made sure (hey, the AG is meeting Bill on the tarmac again to talk about golf and grand children) nothing happened. Considering the FBI's stance on Hillary's actions, that agency has shown itself to either be staffed with complete idiots, or more likely it's staffed with people at the right positions that are perfectly willing to allow political views outweigh the law. Considering Comey claimed that "no reasonable prosecutor" would charge Hillary Clinton when prosecutors, with the help of the FBI under his leaderships, brought charges against people for far lesser breaches than Hillary's, it seems that he's making things up as he goes.

If there is not absolute proof that can be demonstrably and perfectly shown that Obama himself ordered the illegal surveillance of Trump, there is not going to be a scene where a former president is paraded away in cuffs.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:43 AM   #17
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his win was based upon the dying embers of rural whites in three states by some 80,000-odd votes. The majority of voters wanted to continue to destroy traditional America, religious freedom, and individual autonomy through a continually expanding state.
Yes, a very slim margin. The hope of keeping any sense of sanity is in the execution of his agenda and showing the positive results within a few years. Considering the dogs, both republican and democrat nipping at his heels undermining his every step I'm not sure he'll have the chance to do this.

In addition the media has basically turned him into a circus ring master who exaggerates or can't even get the most basic detail correct.

They question everything he says to find the most minuscule error to cast doubt on any and everything and make him the whinging President, which is why this Watergate thing will quickly be even more ignored by the media (who still have Sessions to tear down!). It'll just be Trump whining about something else as far as the messaging goes. He whines about the media, he whines about Congress, he whines about leaks, he whines about the border, he whines about this thing, and that thing, and how unfair things are and blah blah blah. Now he whines about wire tapping. It's just another thing in a littany of things that are SO UNFAIR for poor Billionaire President Donald Trump.

"Well John, he said the refugees came ashore in the town of Anemomilos in Greece but thanks to our fact checkers we can report exclusively that President Trump was wrong again. The refugees actually came ashore about 100 yards outside the official city border at a popular local camping spot."

"Yeah Karen, it sure seems Trump is batting 0 so far, especially considering that information about Sweden. Imagine saying something so outlandish as suggesting immigrant problems in Sweden that one night when there was no news on that single night he referenced and following it up with a total inaccuracy like this! He must be getting tired of having all that egg on his face. I bet there's going to be a new job opening up soon at the White House because heads will roll with a mistake of this magnitude."

He's got a Congress full of out right enemies in the democrats and turncoats who can't wait to stab him in the back with the GOP. He's got an infrastructure riddled with moles and ner'do'wells.

At least we'll have 4 years of Not Hillary before Warren takes her place at The Resolute. Maybe we'll get Ivanka in 2024 but I doubt it.

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Old 03-06-2017, 03:58 AM   #18
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But I'm under no illusions because the reality that his win was based upon the dying embers of rural whites in three states by some 80,000-odd votes. In the meantime, I'm quite content. Good luck to him. He'll need a miracle. Do you believe in miracles?
That's why he's deporting the illegals and is enacting immigration laws that are imo, are saying, we want white Europeans to immigrate here legally.

And there is that MSM narrative. (Embers of dying rural whites). Sounds good but isn't true. Illegal and legal immigration made this narrative possible. Should have never happened. But you know. Globalism/communism. They tried and so far, have failed.

The white liberals don't want us destroyed, they are just vastly overestimating the power of the west and underestimating the enemy. They don't know any better. As for the minority groups, yeah they don't care, we can burn. That's why they need to be rendered useless.
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:14 AM   #19
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That's why he's deporting the illegals and is enacting immigration laws that are imo, are saying, we want white Europeans to immigrate here legally.
I don't agree that the laws are saying the US wants white Europeans. Also, fixing immigration does not itself fix the demographics issue. Birth rates, among other issues, remain an issue

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there is that MSM narrative. (Embers of dying rural whites). Sounds good but isn't true. Illegal and legal immigration made this narrative possible. Should have never happened. But you know. Globalism/communism. They tried and so far, have failed.
The narrative of the dying rural whites isn't false. Demographics show this. Beyond that, look at VA; the state is red aside from a couple densely populated areas which now, in large part, dictate the outcome of the entire state.

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The white liberals don't want us destroyed, they are just vastly overestimating the power of the west and underestimating the enemy. They don't know any better. As for the minority groups, yeah they don't care, we can burn. That's why they need to be rendered useless.
I guess it depends on that you mean by white liberals wanting "us destroyed." If you're referencing whites in general, I agree in the sense that they don't want whites rounded up and simply cut down due to being white. However, I hold the opinion that white liberals absolutely want to destroy any ideology outside of their own. In that sense, they wish to completely destroy us as im those not in line with their views.

Groups like BLM which can be seen endorsing the idea of harming whites due to being white is something I personally blame the largely white liberals for. Most of these groups seen to be nothing more than a way to creep towards more socialism, I guess in hopes of making it to communism.
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:29 AM   #20
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Yes, a very slim margin. The hope of keeping any sense of sanity is in the execution of his agenda and showing the positive results within a few years. Considering the dogs, both republican and democrat nipping at his heels undermining his every step I'm not sure he'll have the chance to do this.

In addition the media has basically turned him into a circus ring master who exaggerates or can't even get the most basic detail correct.

They question everything he says to find the most minuscule error to cast doubt on any and everything and make him the whinging President, which is why this Watergate thing will quickly be even more ignored by the media (who still have Sessions to tear down!). It'll just be Trump whining about something else as far as the messaging goes. He whines about the media, he whines about Congress, he whines about leaks, he whines about the border, he whines about this thing, and that thing, and how unfair things are and blah blah blah. Now he whines about wire tapping. It's just another thing in a littany of things that are SO UNFAIR for poor Billionaire President Donald Trump.

"Well John, he said the refugees came ashore in the town of Anemomilos in Greece but thanks to our fact checkers we can report exclusively that President Trump was wrong again. The refugees actually came ashore about 100 yards outside the official city border at a popular local camping spot."

"Yeah Karen, it sure seems Trump is batting 0 so far, especially considering that information about Sweden. Imagine saying something so outlandish as suggesting immigrant problems in Sweden that one night when there was no news on that single night he referenced and following it up with a total inaccuracy like this! He must be getting tired of having all that egg on his face. I bet there's going to be a new job opening up soon at the White House because heads will roll with a mistake of this magnitude."

He's got a Congress full of out right enemies in the democrats and turncoats who can't wait to stab him in the back with the GOP. He's got an infrastructure riddled with moles and ner'do'wells.

At least we'll have 4 years of Not Hillary before Warren takes her place at The Resolute. Maybe we'll get Ivanka in 2024 but I doubt it.

Yeah, the media is not hiding what they're trying - and to a certain extent finding sucess - to do. I've noticed the whole "without evidence" seems to be a common phrase used. This, of course, wasn't used against Zero when he'd make claims without providing any evidence at the time of the claim.

They also, as in your fictional situation, jump between taking Trump in the most literal form possible and not taking him literally, whenever it suits their purposes. It's like the Sweden comment, where that became: Trump points to a terrorist attack which never happened! The problem was he never said terrorism, so they didn't take him literally, but declared he did anyways.

Lefties seem far more prone to being activists, and I guess that's why things are the way they are. They're not dumb about it either, which is why most "fact-check" sites have a clear liberal bias -- but it allows the msm to push their narrative with the false idea that it's based upon purely objective facts.
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Originally Posted by Anenome View Post
Many cultures of the world marry girls off after their first menses, around 13 years old. I can't say that's inherently immoral, no.
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