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Old 05-07-2019, 08:32 AM   #21
Chief Smash
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They're doing the best they can within the confines of the story.
This does not make any story good. I'm sure they're trying hard but that doesn't mean anyone has to like the results. My personal view is that it's schlock. It might be entertaining schlock at times but it's still schlock and it has been for a long time now. I continue to watch it because my wife still enjoys parts of it and I feel sort of pot committed at this point anyway. If this wasn't the last season (i.e. if there wasn't an end in sight) or if my wife didn't want to watch it together, I would have given up on the show a while ago.
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:09 AM   #22
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I'm at the point in season 4 where they've clearly started going off track from the books. It's pretty clear where the writing is weak because they are making it up, and where the writing is good.

Next season or so they will have no more source material to draw from. When you are watching them the seasons back to back it becomes pretty clear where the line is drawn.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:36 PM   #23
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i agree the writing feels weaker this season, still lots of cool action scenes - but it all feels very linear without and big twists or surprises planned. maybe people would have been happier if the dragon died in battle rather than the surprise attack on an army that did not send one single scout and should have seen the boats? dragons should have amazing vision as well.

im still enjoying it, and dont believe martin will finish the series so at least we get some sense of closure
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:18 PM   #24
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When you are watching them the seasons back to back it becomes pretty clear where the line is drawn.
Important people stop dying. That's the biggest 'tell' of them all in this series that Hollywood took over for GRRM.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:21 PM   #25
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What the hell is CAS support? Speak English!
Close Air Support.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:26 PM   #26
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The writing in this season is just not as good. The reason is obvious. Allow me to quote someone else from somewhere

And that's the sad reality. If the writing is good enough for you then great, enjoy it. Just dont be fanboys who defend it blindly or else you're no better than the Marvel fanboys you hate.
I definitely hear ya. I was just talking about how season 1 GoT would've seen Tyrion get killed if he was standing next to the castle gates with Cersei wanting him dead.

I guess the fact that they have to end the show means it's time to wrap this stuff up, we don't have the luxury of long-winded verbal concoctions, as interesting as they were. So I don't have the expectation that we'll get a bunch of political intrigue, this is the end. I am simply willing to wait until the end to make a final judgement.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:26 PM   #27
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The writing in this season is just not as good. The reason is obvious. Allow me to quote someone else from somewhere else:

"before they passed up the books, the writers room was largely editing down from a huge set of source material and deciding what translates well into the show.
Now, they have something like an outline to go from and they’re responsible for building this massive story, clearly they’re not up to the task."

And that's the sad reality. If the writing is good enough for you then great, enjoy it. Just dont be fanboys who defend it blindly or else you're no better than the Marvel fanboys you hate.
This puts it into perspective for me. I never read any comic books so most of those movies decent to me. My brother-in-law read comic books as a kid and hates damn near every one of those movies because they don't follow the comic books to a T.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:02 PM   #28
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If they had really been paying attention, they could have done this since the beginning.
I watched all of Game of Thrones late a couple years ago on a binge, and I could see the degradation of the writing at the time. I also bitched about it having lost its way with Hollywood writing and characters enduring beyond their 'sell by' date, lol. I think for most folks, it's hard to get a true measure of it's decline because you all watched it over nearly a freaking decade. I watched the entire thing in a binge in one season. You don't notice the changes as much over such a long period of time.

That's also probably part of why folks are bitching a bit this season. It has been nearly two years, and their 'memory' of the show is greater than the reality has been for years and years.

Two weeks. Let's get closure and move along. It's necessary. Hell, I subbed to HBO for the first time ever just to get closure legitimately.
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Old 05-07-2019, 07:14 PM   #29
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Game of Thrones has it in for people of color.

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There is barely a black or brown person left alive in the long-running fantasy series. Is a triumphant storyline too much to ask for these characters?
LOL! We have truly reached peak stupidity in the West. So much leisure, so much wealth, so much food and comfort, so little to busy ourselves about of life-altering importance (and notice folks actually doing life-altering work, like brain surgeons and cancer doctors, aren't fucking wasting their time on this shit like the author of the article, or me for linking and writing about it, lol)...the demand for actual reasons to struggle and strive outstrips the supply of real reasons to bother. Let's invent shit to annoy ourselves so the struggle can continue! FFS.
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Old 05-08-2019, 04:51 AM   #30
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Game of Thrones has it in for people of color.



LOL! We have truly reached peak stupidity in the West. So much leisure, so much wealth, so much food and comfort, so little to busy ourselves about of life-altering importance (and notice folks actually doing life-altering work, like brain surgeons and cancer doctors, aren't fucking wasting their time on this shit like the author of the article, or me for linking and writing about it, lol)...the demand for actual reasons to struggle and strive outstrips the supply of real reasons to bother. Let's invent shit to annoy ourselves so the struggle can continue! FFS.
Thats such a dumbshit article. If GRRM didn't have PoC these ppl, bitch. But now the PoC's are dying and aren't triumphant.

Soo what, every show has to include PoC and they have to win? Thats fucking stupid.

That's like saying, how dare Roots show white slave owners in a bad light! They should have at least one white saviour!
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:26 AM   #31
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LOL! We have truly reached peak stupidity in the West. So much leisure, so much wealth, so much food and comfort, so little to busy ourselves about of life-altering importance (and notice folks actually doing life-altering work, like brain surgeons and cancer doctors, aren't fucking wasting their time on this shit like the author of the article, or me for linking and writing about it, lol)...the demand for actual reasons to struggle and strive outstrips the supply of real reasons to bother. Let's invent shit to annoy ourselves so the struggle can continue! FFS.
I've been waiting for this article. I am surprised it has taken this long. I sort of defensively watch shows and movies now, because I know there will always be someone making a spreadsheet calculating how many poc's are in it and what their fate is etc. I get that everyone wants to have a hero in the things they watch. But we don't all get to have a hero in every single thing that is made. Just like in the film that came out last week "The Intruder." The only white dude in the film was the evil bad guy, and the black characters were the good guys/heroes. That's fine, that's GREAT! Just like in thousands of other movies and tv shows, different people of different races come out on top.

Game of Thrones is modeled after a middle ages Europe, and given the characters in positions of power at this point in the series, what do they want or expect? Grey freaking Worm is going to suddenly become the hero of the show? This stuff is so cringe and ignorant that I hate to even waste these 5 minutes commenting about it. So I will stop now.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:29 AM   #32
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... what do they want or expect? Grey freaking Worm is going to suddenly become the hero of the show?.
I wouldn't even mind that if Grey Worm wasn't such a stupid character. That's part of the root of this issue though. I can't stand that character and I think he's poorly acted too. But there are people who put the writing and acting second to the character's "identity" and they rabidly focus on that. It's a plague that rots every form of entertainment (and beyond that of course) that it touches.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:10 AM   #33
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Big fan of the series (and the books) but this season is landing a little flat. Really liked The Long Night and I even like the banter between characters. It's a satisfying bit of fan service to see them really interact with each other.

But the story feels REALLY forced. Like the end is coming and no matter what could or should happen, it's on its way so time to tie up loose ends. Characters are reduced to a quick cameo (Hi Bronn; bye Ghost) with no real regard for how they should be treated in the bigger picture of the story.

Sure, it will have an ending, but it feels like the writers were told about it a few weeks before the final season so they're scrambling to make it work somehow. They've known for years. It's inexcusable, and not the kind of final season this show deserved.

But The Long Night was a real television achievement. Very impressive. Maybe they were too tired to do much after that. In a way, that's where the show ended.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:30 AM   #34
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The Long Night was visually pretty cool and felt like a big budget movie in some ways. But am I the only one who felt like it was a pretty unceremonious way to bring an end to that threat? We've been told for years that the battle over the Iron Throne is nothing and that what really matters is the coming of the White Walkers. And they got handled pretty darn quick.
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:37 AM   #35
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But am I the only one who felt like it was a pretty unceremonious way to bring an end to that threat?
Nope but you gotta...

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Old 05-08-2019, 01:04 PM   #36
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OMG, that is so friggin' perfect. Awesome. "Wrap that shit up!"
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:52 AM   #37
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IMO it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it's deliberate product placement... make it really difficult to see then leak the "error".

Agree with others the first two episode were dire which did have the effect of making the long night episode seem better. Now the whole point of the thing is wrapped up all that's left is to kill off a few more "main" characters and it's more like a reverse who done it last character standing type of thing...

Personally I'm still annoyed we never got to see a zombie Hodor !
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:06 AM   #38
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Endgame literally got away with its own "Martha" scene. Oh but its okay this time. F off, fanboy children. Disney owns so many souls they should change their name to Shang Tsung.
The instance with Cap actually make sense under even a tiny bit of scrutiny, though.

From 2012 Cap's perspective, Bucky's presumed death would have still been pretty fresh; it happened mere days before Cap ended up getting frozen for 70 years. Seeing him get thrown off for just a moment after hearing that news getting dropped was, at the very least, sufficiently understandable. Batman hesitating - and then outright stopping his killing blow - immediately after hearing the name "Martha" was, comparatively, kinda silly.

It also helps that the tone of the two scenes was very different. The Cap vs Cap fight was meant to be fun and functioned more as a bump in the road halfway through the movie, whereas the Batman vs Superman fight was clearly going to end up being to the death...until Batman was halted by the mere mention of the name their respective mothers apparently shared. So, sure, I'd be more willing to give Endgame a pass for it's "Martha Moment" because it didn't occur during the climax of the film. Batman vs Superman's "Martha Moment", on the other hand, was the device used to end the fight that the entire movie was built around.

Now, if Thanos also had a dead friend named Bucky, and if the revelation that Bucky was still alive lead to his defeat...then you might have a point. Otherwise, there's a reason why I'd be more willing to give one a pass over the other.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:07 PM   #39
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I read a really persuasive hypothesis for how things will wind down. Not going to post it here, but it made a helluva lot of sense.

Also, there's an article complaining about how the showrunners/writers have let women down by having the women in GoT struggle in recent seasons. LOL. Progressives are like kids at their first summer camp, crying that everyone needs to be a winner.

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IMO it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it's deliberate product placement... make it really difficult to see then leak the "error".
I hadn't considered that, but that would be a pretty genius marketing move.
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:27 PM   #40
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(When Marvel copies DC it's cool, when DC does it it's bad.)
I've seen other lengthy rationalizations similar to yours trying to explain why it works for Cap but not for the Bat.

I've also seen lengthy rationalizations as to why the Martha scene is amazing and great.

Fans protect what they love like they are their own children, so all the little details about how one is better than the other or whatever is meaningless to me. What I saw was a carbon copy scene. Two heroes fighting, one gains the upper hand, starts choking the other. The one being choked manages to grunt out a name. Upon doing so, the hero who was winning stops in their tracks, with a dumbfounded look on their face.

It's a copy. Regardless of which one you like or don't like, it is a copy.
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